Hewwo, my name is Achak Claw. I was formerly BioHazard.
The "golden age" of the TI-Basic community is definitely behind us; the status of this wiki is a testament to that. Just look through the news or some of the older project pages and you can see that, after burr got this site started back in 2006, it was very active for the first few years. I joined in 2015 as things were starting to die down.
The trouble is (and by trouble I don't mean that this is a bad thing), powerful programming is much more accessible nowadays. You can learn to make an iOS app or website pretty easily with a few tutorials, and more people have laptops and smartphones than ever; calculators were the best you had back in, say, 2007 if you didn't have easy access to a computer. It's no surprise TI-Basic has lot its steam.
Is it sad? I'd say it is a bit sad; TI-Basic has always piqued my interest, and will likely continue to be my favorite programming language (sorry Python). People still get kicks out of calculator games and the like, but it's not quite the same environment as it was a decade ago. I mean, the "active" base on this wiki is down to basically just a dozen of us, and even since 2015 I've noticed some familiar faces stop popping up (though I am glad to see lirtosiast active again).
If you add up the few of us, the mods on Cemetech, Omnimaga, TiCalc, etc., and a few small YouTube channels and chat servers, it isn't a huge following. New people still come, sure, but TI-Basic really is dying as a community, though not for lack of effort. But if somebody wants a game, or a math program, or whatever, somebody else has probably already done it (and probably better), so there isn't as much drive for newcomers to develop any more. And besides, why code Snake on your TI-84 when you could put a game on the App Store?
The solution to a complex problem is often a simple answer.
I think interest in TI-Basic could increase again. It just depends on how schools begin to emphasize coding at an earlier age. Most students in school have a TI 83/84 calculator, while phones aren't the greatest development environments and laptops are expensive. TI-Basic (I think) is a better way to introduce students to programming than a language like Python in part because students are more likely to learn on their own outside of programming class to make programs for math class or statistics class, etc. Whether or not you should make programs in math class aside, the simplicity of TI-Basic (as a BASIC variant) coupled with the incentive of outside learning, makes it easier to show students the value and coolness of programming, which makes it easier to teach. It's easier to teach students who have "bought in" to learning the material, as opposed to teaching students who just need to take the class for credit hours and don't have a passion for what they are learning. If schools really want to teach programming to younger students, then TI-Basic could be an option, in which case, popularity would rise again.
I think it would help, too, if some of the limitations of the language were removed, like if 84 Basic (or Nspire Basic, for that matter) became more like 68k Basic. But that might be asking a lot.
Anyway, making simple programs in TI-Basic is easy and intuitive enough to make the language a plausible option if STEM is taught in earlier school grades. Whether TI-Basic is adopted and its popularity increases again, we'd just have to see. Stranger things have happened.
I have lots of information and am conducting tons of research on the +CE, probably enough to update most of the command compatibility information on the wiki. Also, it might be a good idea to loosen up some of the rules on forum posting, as they restrict the already limited level of forum activity to a nearly empty state. If you ever need anything updated for the CE, I can do it.
I don't think forum rules are any sort of barrier to people. If anything, they ensure the activity that is seen on the site is healthy and respectful; quality over quantity, if you will. As for updating the wiki, I think that will help with more accessibility (I've tried to that to a degree over the past year-ish), but I can't imagine that will do much either. Like Myles mentioned, there's something that needs to happen at a larger scale to get things rolling again.
The solution to a complex problem is often a simple answer.
I agree, TI-BASIC just isn't a very good language for any practical purpose compared to the resources we have now for casual programming:
- Programming in most languages allows 3-6 orders of magnitude more computing power for the average user (256KB RAM vs 2-16GB, 15 MHz vs 3 GHz * 4 cores * 2-10 for wider cores). There's so much more that can be done with 10000 times the resources that I don't think it needs mentioning.
- TI-BASIC actively encourages bad style: No subroutines or local variables without clunky hacks, there are weird quirks to the interpreter, and the fastest or smallest way to do something ends up being incomprehensible— not to mention the lack of comments.
- When using a computer there is a tight feedback loop between making a change and being able to run it. In TI-BASIC I have to tediously type in programs to a calculator (which I no longer own), transfer files, or use jsTIfied. Big difference for learning to code.
As for myself, I'm still here occasionally because I see it as a collection of puzzles rather than anything practical. In code golf, using a tokenized (i.e. low byte count) language with weird syntax is fun; combining that with having math commands at my disposal turns everything into a mess of one-liners which is a strange kind of beauty. I remember fondly the one time I was able to use timeCnv( to optimize. I love finding out a clever way to vectorize a function to triple its speed, and the fact that speed is limited in the first place only adds to that. And I'm fluent enough where I can write a routine on paper and count bytes by hand before testing it. Overall golfing in TI-BASIC gives me a thrill I've only otherwise had from APL.
Maybe, but I think TI meant for there language to be used for teaching programming. I am rather late to the game since I just picked up calculator programming, in April/May I think. I've enjoyed this community a lot, and as long as it doesn't go away completely I will be happy. One day I think I'd want to be a math teacher and I would definitely encourage the students to learn and use TI Basic. I do wish we had more ways to talk to each other though. Perhaps a Discord or IRC server because PMs feel too much like emails.
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OK, I just remember the last time I tried using, it wasn't working. How many people actually use it though? Discord will send you notifications so you don't miss anything. The only notifications I think the chat page would give me would be by email if that.
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I'm adding desktop notifications >.>
I sorta agree with you but, if we had more enthusiast then maybe would would have more interest. When I started out, (2 years ago) there were not many people I knew who were into TI-BASIC so I had to teach myself. I finally found this forum and didn't register until last summer in which I had a few ideas for a project. I went with a remake of a homebrew game made for the VC20. But there was really nobody to turn to for questions so I came here. When a great enthusiast leaves, so does the community that sorta "followed him".
TI-BASIC is a pretty bad programming language compared to pretty much everything we have today, and it hasn't been improved in decades. It wasn't even good when it first originated, even the TI-99/4a's version of TI-BASIC that came out decades prior was significantly better.
To be honest, I don't even think Texas Instruments would keep the TI-84+'s alive if they weren't selling so well for use in standardized testing. Their TI-Nspire line of calculators are much more powerful and have Lua builtin for basically the same price. It would be hard to justify many people buying TI-84+s at all if it wasn't for their use in standardized testing.
Home use of calculators has started to fall off as well. Nobody cares to use calculators because computers do everything for you anyways. Need to do your taxes? Just download a program and it'll do it all for you! On the rare occasion you do need a calculator, you can just use your cellphone.
Unless you are actually interested in STEM, having to buy an incredibly expensive legacy graphing calculator is just a holdover from old times and most people will not touch their calculators after they graduate from school.
If you are interested in STEM, programming, or whatever, you could just get a Raspberry Pi and run a much better version of BASIC, or even Python, on there and get more functionality out of that for a fraction of the price that is just as easy to learn.
The only thing that gives TI-BASIC some relevance is the fact these calculators are used in high school testing. But if you are not in high school you likely will stop caring about them pretty quickly, especially due to the poor nature of TI-BASIC.
In 2004, the having a programmable computer in your pocket was pretty cool. In 2018, it is not. You can buy an Arduino Nano for $5 and load Tiny BASIC onto it. Spending $125 for a TI-84+CE to code in a mediocre version of BASIC is not exactly appealing to people these days.
Sorry for the hard truth but TI-BASIC likely will only continue to get more and more niche. TI-BASIC has no practical uses, it is simply for fun. And in a mediocre economy, people don't have time for fun.
Amen.
Hewwo, my name is Achak Claw. I was formerly BioHazard.
I agree and here is why. Desmos is much faster and if they wanted to they could implement a CAS, which may or may not be allowed on a standardized test. The article says it would be harder to catch cheating, but I don't think so. I don't know what most schools are using but I've heard of a lot about schools using Chromebooks which are already a pretty locked down platform. Combine that with the school's own software, and you have to have a good amount of knowledge to use notes, software, or a search engine without getting caught. Also the effectiveness of standardized testing is debated a lot.
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I actually am the student captain at my high schools math team, and today we competed as one of the guest teams at a competition. The home competitors all had CAS Nspires. Only things was, Nspires or other CAS calcs were not allowed on the test. Of course, the supervisor didn’t bat an eye at the fact that all of the students were doing this, because she was a teacher at the high school. All she did was confiscate a TI-89 owned by one of our competitors. I personally love CAS systems, and I have spent ages trying to design a CAS on the TI-84+CE (my personal calc of choice) but I have to admit that they can cause a lot of conflicts in the education system. Mine can calculate chain rule derivatives in a flash, and although I only use it as a proof of concept it is still a powerful tool. However, I take too much pride in my skill in calculus to ever use it. I get your point though.
That's really cool. Some day I'd like to make a CAS, I'd probably have it operate from a shell like Bash not Doors. It seems like a monumental task according to this. Derivatives by themselves don't seem to bad, since most of the time you are just copying and combining strings.
I've only taken one year of Java at my school so I'm still pretty new to programming. There are so many areas of computer science and even more programming languages so I don't know where to start or what I should focus on learning. That's primarily because it seems like you have to have a decent amount knowledge in several areas: shell, markup languages, and how to program in different paradigms(that is to say you don't have to know C, Java, Python, JS, or Haskell specifically but how to use a language that each of those languages are typically used for).
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I agree then disagree because TI-BASIC can be pushed beyond what people think I believe personally, But yet "TI-BASIC has no practical uses". Something about that statement triggers me but I have to agree because its true and I also agree with "And in a mediocre economy, people don't have time for fun". As TI-BASIC programs may can take a month- 7 months (from experience)
As of 2018, a TI84+ (Which is the main calc used by most TI-Devs) is somewhere above 100$, a raspberry pi that can emulate that is 35$. To "build" a TI84+ can be 30-40$. Single board computers these days take over the programming market as they are more capable and more cheaper than paying 100$ for a calc that can only program in TI-BASIC out of box while Raspbian comes with way more languages and capability than a 100$ calc.
I agree that this is the sad truth, but it might also be a good idea to make use of this financial disconnect for the benefit of TI BASIC. I learned how to program with this language, and so not only do I owe it for the experience it has given me, but I find that it’s limiting factors help me think outside the box. TI BASIC is a great tool for beginning programmers, and it comes with a powerful incentive: Those who learn how to fully wield the calculator learn valuable math insight in the process. Thus, your idea about building a cheap TI84 might actually be a great, cheap, and powerful way to revitalise TI BASIC. It won’t get too many people involved, but it would be a massive help to this site if enough people published their building stories. For me, TI BASIC has always been fun, and I agree with you that TI BASIC doesn’t need to have practical uses. People like us do this for fun, and I believe that fun will always be the basis of TI BASIC, right up to the inevitable dying day that we nevertheless wish will never have to happen.